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Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.01.27 07:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
New players aren't supposed to 'catch up'
Fact is, the skill system is intended to allow an older player to be differentiated from a newer player, for the most part. Obviously, if I started before you and never logged in while running on passive SP, and you played frequently without even the use of boosters, you would surpass me in skill. I'm sure many have already as I don't play that much usually.
So, what it boils down to, is that age does not truly compensate for experience, but, if you don't play and you passive skill for a year, it will take some time for a new player at that point to catch up to you even provided they play a lot.
Believe it or not, this is how it should be. That new player will likely own you anyway because he has much more practice. It is not only the skills, but the player who is behind them that determines success. This is the same as EVE, despite that no new player will catch up in SP there unless the older player quits playing.
Even with skill in EVE, a new player may train the right skills and own an experienced older player simply because he is better at it.
So this carries over to Dust as well. We have skills, and we have skill. Which one is better? That is up to the player to decide.
Option 5 is potentially better in the short term, but it will be phased out soon enough anyway. I am oddly in favor of it, despite that it will grant motivated players with the time to invest a greater chance at accelerating in SP gain over players who have less time.
The reason I support it, is that I feel that there is little harm in rewarding truly motivated players at this stage, and because I know and understand that it is only intended to be temporary until a better system is in place. I might even benefit a little myself, though I don't think I often surpass 800 WP in a match, which is less that the soft cap on choice #2.
It's fine really, and I'd probably be okay with it long term, knowing that only a very few, very good players will ever pass that 1000 WP per match total and earn extra SP, over and above the other choice. If they are that good, then why not reward them? And that's the point really: option 5 rewards very good players; it does not reward player who camp in the MCC for the entire match or those that simply grind match upon match intending to skill past everyone else, one way or the other.
You need to do something to gain the benefit, and that is more important than limiting SP for all players. It's a measure of fair trade. I see no harm in that, or ability to exploit it, aside from the current Logistics WP generation with all their toys. That is unfortunately an unfair advantage, but it can be changed. |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 01:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Scurvy Granger wrote:Mars El'Theran wrote: Option 5 is potentially better in the short term, but it will be phased out soon enough anyway. I am oddly in favor of it, despite that it will grant motivated players with the time to invest a greater chance at accelerating in SP gain over players who have less time.
So since I have a full time job and am a parent which only gives me weekends to play and sometimes not even that I should be punished. I love this game as much as the no lifers that can play every day of the week, but love it less when I go up against them because they are already in all proto gear and me in mid range gear. You want to reward people that have no life and don't pay anymore into the game than I do and, to take it outside the game, contribute less to the community than I do? Where's my reward as a gamer? Option 5 is MUCH WORSE in the short term, if it's for short term then put it at a weekly cap with NO SP SOFT CAP because the people that are waiting for the Dust 514 official release are going to be WAY behind and a lot of them will probably decide to drop the game altogether because of matches that they have against these dedicated players. I tried to be political about all this but honestly I could give a rats a** about the 1% that is arguing for more SP for them to reward them for their "dedication" to the game. They are not any more dedicated to the game than I am but they do have more time. I will probably put as much money if not more into this game than each of them will, but on top of that I am looking to the future of this game being involved with the EVE universe whereas a lot of them, of their own admission, just want to play this as a FPS. Because it's an FPS they want instant gratification, so do I. So then lets just have CCP give EVERYONE all the skills so we can all be on equal footing right off the bat, that's the only way to be "FAIR" about all of this. Get over yourselves "hardcore" players and for once make a sacrifice without QQing about how "unfair" it is for you. When things are made "FAIR" for you then it's "UNFAIR" for everyone else. The world doesn't evolve around you. Mars El'Theran wrote: You need to do something to gain the benefit, and that is more important than limiting SP for all players. It's a measure of fair trade. I see no harm in that, or ability to exploit it, aside from the current Logistics WP generation with all their toys. That is unfortunately an unfair advantage, but it can be changed.
"a measure of fair trade"...What's fair about letting the 1% get so far ahead of someone that works and has a family but is also dedicated to this game? You see no ability to exploit it? I have already seen(and been involved in) intentionally letting the enemy take positions just so we can run in and kill them all and take it back. Did you know when you're against a newberry team you can actually force them in the direction you want them to go? I have seen it done before, newberries go for the easiest objective most of the time and all you have to do is leave a hole for them. No soft cap will make this the way for the grinders to play all the time, that's a way of exploiting and ensuring you get more SP each match.
It's isn't quite amusing that your Corp seems to have players on both sides of the fence voicing opposing attitudes, but it is interesting.
I work full time myself and have little time for any games generally, and when I do, I often rather just watch a show and relax, or come here or EVE and chat on the forums and discuss things like this.
The fact is, those players are the 1%, and they always will be. Sure, with enough practice, you or I, or someone else may actually get as good at playing this or other FPS as they are, but it is relatively unlikely. My point was that, if they invested the time and effort and were actually good enough to see rewards in excess of the average as a result of it, then let them have it. They have obviously proven their level of skill by being able to do it.
This is to say, I'd rather some small percentage of exceptional players see a benefit over other players, (even if those others are maybe not as good because they don't have the time to get that good), than have an open system that allows people to just log in and skill past everyone else simply because they logged in and elected to join battle and stand in the MCC 40 times a day.
'Those' player will see no benefit whatsoever, and for their lack of activity sitting idle, will net no SP gains for doing so. Seems fair to me. And besides, you can log in and skill past your cap here and there and benefit the same as those others if you can attain more than 1000 WP per match to, as can anyone else. The only difference is how often you can do so, for lacking the time to log in.
Besides, I think most of the really good players that would benefit the most from this, probably don't log in nearly as much as the SP grinders who are shouting for unlimited SP advancement with no caps whatsoever.
Also, as I said, this is a temporary change, though it might last for awhile. The poll in question states as much, though it does not suggest when it will be implemented or when it will be replaced by the 'final' system that is being worked on. It could be two weeks, or two months, or somewhat more or less than. Frankly, as well as I did yesterday, and as much time as I invested then, I almost would have liked to have seen it in place then.
Regardless, I still made plenty of ISK, and I think I got some reasonably decent salvage too, for all that the majority of my battles netted me no more than 50 SP apiece. I also increased my KDR by about 0.5 which looks nice in the books. |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.01.28 02:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Scurvy Granger wrote:Mars El'Theran wrote: This is to say, I'd rather some small percentage of exceptional players see a benefit over other players, (even if those others are maybe not as good because they don't have the time to get that good), than have an open system that allows people to just log in and skill past everyone else simply because they logged in and elected to join battle and stand in the MCC 40 times a day.
First off I did read the rest and I'm glad you're enjoying the game and the forums when you're online. That is your preference of things. Second I am as good as some of these no lifers, better than others, and no where close to the same skill as a very small amount of them. So should I not be rewarded for being at a higher skill level? Well since I can only play 2 days out of the week I am not. Now for the reason I only quoted this part of your words. I don't know where people are getting the idea that anyone will get rewarded for just sitting in the MCC, if you just sit in the MCC before the cap you will get your SP, but after you hit your cap THE TIME BONUS GOES AWAY AND YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO EARN SP. With Option 2 After the cap you get 1 WP = 1 SP UP TO 1000 SP(which is the cap) With Option 5 After the cap you get 1 WP = 1 SP PERIOD(no limit) So no you cannot get rewarded for just sitting in the MCC after you hit your cap. EDIT: and as far as my corp goes I do not represent the interests of my corp in this, each member of my corp is entitled to their own opinion on gameplay matters, but when it has to do with our reputation or integrity that is when we stand together. This subject is in no way related to corporation interests but instead each players available time for play and which group they represent i.e. "hardcore" / "average" / "casual"
I think the word cap made you CAPS. I'm perfectly capable of reading versions of letters; no real need for that.
There was a time when sitting in the MCC would continue gaining you 2-3K SP per match, and if the members who call for unlimited cap get their way, it will continue to do so. I was not referring to option 2, which was actually my first choice. I was simply saying that, given option 5 does not allow for that, I held little objection and saw no reason not to put it in place temporarily just to see what happens.
Bottom line, or tl;dr if you prefer, is that I'm obviously not as concerned about being SP better than other players because I've been playing longer as you are. That doesn't concern me so much as the ability to exploit the system and SPcelerate, or just grind SP to the end of the earth and double or triple what anybody else is capable of just because you happen to be couch-bound and have nothing better to do.
I've played EVE long enough to be well accustomed to most players having far more SP than I do, and--time relevant--if I play less and devote less time to the game than they do, is it really any different than not joining the game until years after they do?
No to unlimited SP. Sure, why not, to SP you have to work for. That said though, it isn't likely a whole lot of players will pass 1000 WP per match anyway, so I'm not sure it is even relevant whether 2 or 5 is chosen.
I'll be fine with either, having no vested interest in one over the other, aside from wondering what the result of 5 will be. |
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